Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2021/06/24

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Subject: [Leica] Leica 135mm Apo Telyt M
From: jayanand at gmail.com (Jayanand Govindaraj)
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 2021 10:24:01 +0530
References: <CAH1UNJ2aVEv_vRPXscsYEn=TUHE6cEKCb2p==4ahsYrEM2T4jA@mail.gmail.com> <943f8e4a-82e0-3299-7461-6278e23e3918@summaventures.com> <CAJ3Pgh7nG-x0mk4s+tirxeissuLNw2xkTvYK3gJrCN3Sh7--eQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAFfkXxvXttdAZVRyN6sfQm-aa3QY7T6EVNOkf8C4EQkFOpwoGw@mail.gmail.com> <CAJ3Pgh5O8KpCyJcS2V7-8wpx3jggmZuE0iMN=zvSmkZMOpp9vg@mail.gmail.com> <CAH1UNJ3CZ-i_w612296etT4r0UxdhcKnES107CgkfOW_ha4imA@mail.gmail.com> <CAJ3Pgh53gruv4FAy=64XgoZicFUn1+605eQs4j01K+chM661yw@mail.gmail.com> <CAH1UNJ120x96GMVPHqa49beHfQaXT6N0LPb7RLk+w2Wpovhg-w@mail.gmail.com> <CABXy404+9T4R+GTMdyCkvTjOn4qZjfw35Lp649cznt_AS7XSFg@mail.gmail.com> <CAJ3Pgh6n6sK-O56z5wnG5_L_Lq_JHMaBbCLxkwdzsLLEKVM7fQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAH1UNJ1=zRmdz5oETGi8zSo72unReSTW8msNja5J2YFrcneDEQ@mail.gmail.com>

Paul,
I might add that the largest print I have ever got printed and sold was a
40"x60" rendition on canvas (to reduce weight) to the Chennai Metro
Authority, for display in one of their stations dedicated to local artists
and photographers depicting local life, was taken with a Fuji XPro1 and the
kit lens, at ISO 4000. It worked very well, and was still hanging in the
station before the pandemic:

http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/jayanand/album254/Mylapore/_DSF3476.jpg.html

I have probably sold 25-30 prints of this, in various sizes, because of the
exhibit - which any commuter can get close to if they wish! I realized that
nobody cares about  precise sharpness, visible noise etc, if the overall
photograph tells a valid story.

Cheers
Jayanand



On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 9:46 AM Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Weight is a different factor altogether. All my Nikon telephotos up to
> 500mm are those I can hand hold, because I miss fewer shots that way. To me
> a lens which is a stop slower is an acceptable compromise to getting more
> keepers, but as ever, YMMV!
>
> The new "Enhance" function in PS and Lightroom is almost as good as Topaz
> Gigapixel. I bought Gigapixel some time ago, but I would not buy it today,
> for the same reason as choosing lenses - though Gigapixel is undoubtedly a
> tad superior when I am pixel peeping, there is no discernible difference on
> a print, more so at normal viewing distances. I agree 100% with you,
> though, that modern software negates a lot of the preconceptions that we
> have been carrying around, and that giving many of these a trial run is a
> worthwhile activity.
>
> Cheers
> Jayanand
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 25, 2021 at 9:01 AM Paul Roark via LUG <lug at leica-users.org>
> wrote:
>
>> I am also a hiker.  So I consider size and weight.  The Leica 135 at 4 1/4
>> inches and 478 grams is much nicer to carry than the Canon zoom at 6 1/2
>> inches and 787 grams.  So, if I can capture more information with less
>> size
>> and weight, that counts, big time.
>>
>> As to the importance of sharpness, my first one person show (in about
>> 1981)
>> was, in effect, a market test.  While the people loved the color I was
>> doing, I regularly saw people walking up close to the prints and then
>> backing off.  The sharpness of those (original 35mm slides) was not, in my
>> view, good enough for gallery display.  (Though I was proud to sell one to
>> Elizabeth Taylor's mother, and the entire show ultimately sold for
>> corporate decor -- which was not really my target.)  For large, wall
>> display prints, 35mm film was simply not going to do the job.  Hasselblads
>> ruled that segment for a reason, and as a result of this original show and
>> the feedback I received, I bought a Rollei SL66, which was up to the
>> standards that were expected.  After the show in Palm Springs, it turned
>> into a traveling show through the greater Los Angeles area.  By that time
>> I
>> had just a few black and white prints that were taken with the SL66.  I
>> grew up with a darkroom (my Dad's buddy was Todd Walker), so doing B&W was
>> easy for me.  In the L.A. show, which was in the lobby of, I believe, what
>> was then called the Bonaventure, the new medium format B&W prints were all
>> stolen.  None of the color prints were stolen.  That was great feedback.
>> Sharp B&W became my target/main medium.
>>
>> Although I started to experiment with digital image capture early in the
>> transition, the Leica M9 was really the turning point for me.  MF film and
>> the Rollei SL66 became relics from the past (though the SL66 holds a
>> special place in my heart and is in a display case in my home now).
>>
>> I "sat" at Gallery Los Olivos today.  One of the prints on display was my
>> "Pompeii Basilica to Mt. Vesuvius."  (See
>> https://www.paulroark.com/Italy.html and scroll down.)  Even though the
>> print is very large, people still walk up to it and check out the details.
>> So do I.
>>
>> So, while it's probably not true for all people and styles, for what I do,
>> sharpness matters -- but so does ability to comfortably carry the
>> equipment.  My simple testing of lenses by shooting the distant top of the
>> Santa Inez mountains between where I live and Santa Barbara, has been a
>> significant and easy part of what I do that, I'm convinced, has played a
>> significant role in my ability to find the equipment and software that
>> helps me sell my prints and enjoy doing photography.
>>
>> I might add that we may now be at a transition point in terms of software.
>> At least for people like me, Topaz's AI Gigapixel is a quantum leap over
>> PS
>> sharpening.  It's the first example I have any experience with that
>> suggests "artificial intelligence" may be more than hype and BS.  It's
>> just
>> another tool, but it's quickly become one I regularly use.  If you like
>> sharp images, you really ought to check it out.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Paul
>> www.PaulRoark.com
>> ..............................................
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at 11:15 AM Ken Iisaka <ken at iisaka.com> wrote:
>>
>> > The sad truth is that not all the pixels end up in the final print.
>> >
>> > What I've always enjoyed about making large prints in a darkroom is
>> that I
>> > could make prints which could be enjoyed both up close and from a more
>> > "normal" viewing distance.
>> >
>> > However, I've had several 24x36" (60x90cm) prints made from images
>> captured
>> > on SL2 and Q2 recently. Invariably, I see that the printing resolution
>> is
>> > in the order of 100 dpi or even less, that only about 8mp of information
>> > ends up on the print. When viewed up close, all the details in the
>> original
>> > image files are lost.
>> >
>> > I'd like to know which printers would not downscale the image to an
>> > artificially low dpi.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, 24 Jun 2021 at 09:37, Jayanand Govindaraj via LUG <
>> > lug at leica-users.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > > IMHO, image quality matters to the extent it is discernible on a print
>> > of a
>> > > size you want to show/exhibit, whatever, at normal viewing distances.
>> > > Beyond that it means nothing. If you are not exhibiting/selling prints
>> > of a
>> > > size equal to a 300% magnification on the monitor, taking normal
>> viewing
>> > > distances into account, because these are definitely not going to be
>> > viewed
>> > > from 12-15 inches away, why bother?
>> > >
>> > > Cheers
>> > > Jayanand
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at 7:40 PM Paul Roark via LUG <
>> lug at leica-users.org>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Jayanand wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > How will you ever make out that level of difference in a print of
>> any
>> > > > size?
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Note that the magnifications of the prints are different.
>> > > >
>> > > > If image quality doesn't matter, why does Leica exist?
>> > > >
>> > > > Paul
>> > > > www.PaulRoark.com
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On Thu, Jun 24, 2021 at 12:02 AM Paul Roark via LUG <
>> > lug at leica-users.org
>> > > >
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > I posted a same-size screen grab of the Leica 135 and Canon 200
>> at
>> > > > > >
>> > https://www.paulroark.com/Leica-apo-135-v-Canon-L-70-200-at-200.JPG
>> > > .
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > They look very similar, but I think the ridge line of the 135 M
>> > has a
>> > > > > > slight advantage.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Paul
>> > > > > > www.PaulRoark.com
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 8:59 AM Sonny Carter via LUG <
>> > > > > lug at leica-users.org>
>> > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > pix?
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Regards,
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Sonny
>> > > > > > > http://sonc.com <http://sonc.com/look/>
>> > > > > > > Natchitoches, Louisiana
>> > > > > > > 1714
>> > > > > > > Oldest Permanent Settlement in the Louisiana Purchase
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > USA
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > On Wed, Jun 23, 2021 at 10:57 AM Paul Roark via LUG <
>> > > > > lug at leica-users.org
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > I thought this group would appreciate the results of this
>> > > telephoto
>> > > > > > > > comparison test.  The question was, between my Canon 70 -
>> 200
>> > > f/4 L
>> > > > > > > series
>> > > > > > > > lens at 200mm and my Leica 135mm, which could actually
>> render
>> > > > distant
>> > > > > > > > details the best.  Both were on a Sony a7c.  The Leica 135
>> won.
>> > > >  And
>> > > > > > > this
>> > > > > > > > was at optimum apertures and center.  Off axis and wide open
>> > the
>> > > > > > > > differences would be more pronounced.   (The Canon zoom will
>> > soon
>> > > > be
>> > > > > on
>> > > > > > > > eBay.)
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Paul
>> > > > > > > > www.PaulRoark.com
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > > > > > Leica Users Group.
>> > > > > > > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>> > > > information
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > > > > Leica Users Group.
>> > > > > > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>> > > information
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > > > Leica Users Group.
>> > > > > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>> > information
>> > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > > Leica Users Group.
>> > > > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>> information
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > Leica Users Group.
>> > > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
>> information
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > _______________________________________________
>> > > Leica Users Group.
>> > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Ken Iisaka
>> > first name at last name dot org or com
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Leica Users Group.
>> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>


In reply to: Message from jayanand at gmail.com (Jayanand Govindaraj) ([Leica] Old Photographs)
Message from pdzwig at summaventures.com (Peter Dzwig) ([Leica] Old Photographs)
Message from roark.paul at gmail.com (Paul Roark) ([Leica] Leica 135mm Apo Telyt M)
Message from sonc.hegr at gmail.com (Sonny Carter) ([Leica] Leica 135mm Apo Telyt M)
Message from roark.paul at gmail.com (Paul Roark) ([Leica] Leica 135mm Apo Telyt M)
Message from jayanand at gmail.com (Jayanand Govindaraj) ([Leica] Leica 135mm Apo Telyt M)
Message from roark.paul at gmail.com (Paul Roark) ([Leica] Leica 135mm Apo Telyt M)
Message from jayanand at gmail.com (Jayanand Govindaraj) ([Leica] Leica 135mm Apo Telyt M)
Message from ken at iisaka.com (Ken Iisaka) ([Leica] Leica 135mm Apo Telyt M)
Message from roark.paul at gmail.com (Paul Roark) ([Leica] Leica 135mm Apo Telyt M)
Message from jayanand at gmail.com (Jayanand Govindaraj) ([Leica] Leica 135mm Apo Telyt M)