Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/12/09
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]You'd want to call it from the southern standpoint the "war of northern aggression" rather than the war of "we were being total A-holes and the north had to put an end to it" aggression. Mark William Rabiner Photography http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/ > From: Bill Larsen <von-ohlen at sbcglobal.net> > Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> > Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2012 16:59:55 -0800 > To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> > Subject: Re: [Leica] Desensitization > > Douglas Barry the answers you are getting here are somewhat simplistic. > And I am not quite knowledgeable enough to really furnish any light. > The term is "war of northern aggression" as other have wrote is much > more complex. It really wasn't about slavery other than in a tangential > manner. It was a civil war. And like all civil war very nasty. I > might point out that there was not a totally uniform opinion about it > in any state. Brothers were pitted against brothers (and I mean in the > family rather than the society). States like North Carolina and Virginia > had people fighting in both armies. And apparently it is not a conflict > that has healed yet. > On 12/9/2012 4:15 PM, Don Dory wrote: >> Ric, while slavery was the proximate cause of the war, most of the >> response >> was the truly great debate about the nature of the union. Many in the >> Southern States truly believed in the State first and the union second. >> Lee is the perfect example of one who abhorred slavery but so loved his >> Virginia that he declined the honor of leading the Union Armies in the >> invasion of Virginia. >> >> Of course political power and the wealth that flowed from that had a lot >> to >> do with the ultimate war. With Lincoln as president there was no doubt >> that the new states joining the union would be free states that would >> ultimately change the balance of power in the Senate and the House. If >> you >> were wealthy in the South, in no small part due to slavery, then the idea >> that the industrial northern states combined with the new states in the >> west could take your wealth away was worth the expenditure of thousands of >> lives. Of course not their own. I say that, but if you visit the >> University of Virginia you will see that most of the classes near the >> Civil >> War died in the war: if you could go to the University you were part of >> the >> ruling class. >> >> >> On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 7:05 PM, Don Dory <don.dory at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Ken, I just had a good friend tour the Blues sites in Mississippi near >>> Greenwood. Most are still there in all their grubby glory. The Delta >>> is a >>> place of great poverty with pockets of vast wealth. Good ingredients for >>> the Blues. Most of the worst poverty is invisible now. It doesn't mean >>> that it isn't there but it is poor politics to have rows of shotgun >>> shacks >>> with no running water and no interior toilet facilities visible from the >>> road. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 7:00 PM, Don Dory <don.dory at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> I knew that term would draw fire. Many residents of the Southeastern >>>> U.S. use that term as from their perspective the Northern States >>>> violated >>>> the long term agreement about slavery. It is important when moving >>>> between >>>> cultures to understand their perspective on how things happened and more >>>> important the why. Whether it fits the facts on the ground the personal >>>> reality is the sum of the society, it's myths, dreams, and the >>>> origination >>>> stories that culture tells itself. >>>> >>>> As to the American Civil War as most know the conflict of the early to >>>> mid 1860's it was eighty years in the making more or less and proof that >>>> even know horrendous human undertakings require just as horrendous a >>>> response to change. My opinion is that is why change is so hard, the >>>> price >>>> of change is often as horrendous as the objected to activity. Consider >>>> the >>>> Second World War, we remember the Holocaust as 6 million Jews, Gypsies, >>>> and >>>> mental defectives being slaughtered but it took the lives of some 20 >>>> million Russians, 12 million Germans, half a million French citizens, >>>> half >>>> a million Americans, almost 600,000 Poles. I could go on but certainly >>>> a >>>> very high price to resolve European issues starting in 1914. >>>> >>>> As to the question of the pictures, if you browse the images of the >>>> Civil >>>> War there are a few still available of the "hospitals" where the only >>>> known >>>> treatment for 58 caliber bullets smashing bone and flesh was amputation; >>>> hence the piles of arms and legs. The United States suffered more >>>> deaths >>>> and injuries during the Civil War than it did in any other conflict: new >>>> estimates are at 750,000 casualties. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 6:24 PM, Tina Manley <images at comporium.net> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I love the South and would miss it terribly. There are plenty of us who >>>>> don't fly Confederate flags, support Obama, vote Democratic, and don't >>>>> stereotype others. >>>>> >>>>> Tina >>>>> >>>>> On Sunday, December 9, 2012, Bill Pearce <billcpearce at cox.net> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> Usually pronounced Wah uv Nawthen Agression, this is the term that >>>>> residents of the US South (Sore Loosers) use to describe the American >>>>> Civil >>>>> War. These can be, but not always are the same people that have large >>>>> Confederate flag decals on their pickup trucks. It is an inaccurate >>>>> description. President Lincoln was brilliant and far seeing, and >>>>> realized >>>>> that if this succession was to become fact, there would be no end, and >>>>> what >>>>> is the USA would become a hodgepodge of tiny nations led by who knows >>>>> what. >>>>> There are many of us, however, who wouldn't miss the south a bit. >>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: philippe.amard >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 5:10 PM >>>>>> To: Leica Users Group >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Desensitization >>>>>> >>>>>> could it be Vietnam? >>>>>> ph >>>>>> >>>>>> Le 9 d?c. 12 ? 23:39, Douglas Barry a ?crit : >>>>>> >>>>>>> "Don Dory" <don.dory at gmail.com> wrote >>>>>>>> nasty deaths from smallpox and ebola. Or consider the images from >>>>> the >>>>> War >>>>>>>> of Northern Aggression where there were stacks of limbs outside the >>>>> medical >>>>>>>> tents. >>>>>>> Don, as an Irishman living in Ireland and unfamiliar with many terms >>>>> used in the States, what was the War of Northern Aggression? Do you >>>>> mean >>>>> the Korean War? I never saw those images. >>>>>>> I presume you don't mean the American Civil War as I thought that >>>>> started with the Confederacy attacking Fort Sumter? Well it did >>>>> according >>>>> to all those school history books (European) I read 50 years ago. >>>>>>> Maybe school books are different in the USA.... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Douglas >>>>>>> _________ >>>>>>> Douglas Barry >>>>>>> Bray, Co. Wicklow >>>>>>> Republic of Ireland >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Tina Manley, ASMP >>>>> www.tinamanley.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Don >>>> don.dory at gmail.com >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Don >>> don.dory at gmail.com >>> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information