Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2006/04/12

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Subject: [Leica] RUSSIAN KGB leica?"
From: walt at (Walt Johnson)
Date: Wed Apr 12 06:08:27 2006
References: <>


I'm sure you are right about historical rogues in general and those two 
in particular. I would add several more "shooters" to the list though 
including Harry Truman and LBJ. Nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki ran 
Harry's score over the top. Lyndon followed the French into Indochine 
and stirred up a lot of trouble.

 As far as Rohm went, What had to be done allegedly caused Hitler quite 
some grief. (Hell, now you've got me being an apologist for villains)  
The German Imperial Army may have been an honorable pursuit but the SA 
was not a group candystrippers. Rohm was, as I'm sure you know,  a 
homosexual and allegedly that was verboten in the old corps. El Lobo 
opted for the support of the military establishment which was decidedly 

For me, I can't escape the feeling history gets constantly rewritten in 
accordance with the daily flavors. The winners are, it would seem, 
always the good guys. All one has to do stop by the local Barnes and 
Noble to reinforce this concept. We, ourselves, have quite a roguish 
past in light of objective history, if such a thing exists.



>Walt Johnson writes: 
>>Some where in your history class you might have done a bit of 
>English Lit? Maybe. History never. Military history? I had already read any 
>required texts long before taking the class. Twice or more if really 
>>Stalin was quite familiar with pulling a trigger and his German 
>>counterpoint ( I trust you mean Adolph and not Marlene Dietrich)had 
>>his heinie shot off more than once. Again, it seems as if you are 
>>confusing them with our own hero/leaders. Most of whom were hiding 
>>under the bed when everyone else was busy "defending democracy".
>Being familiar with pulling a trigger is a common trait for all the rogues 
>of history. Seldom are they prepared to do the dirty work themselves. The 
>usual cast of Russian, and later Soviet absolute dictator's usually had 
>people to do that for them. One notable Russian exception being Ivan the 
>Terrible. They were called the GRU, NKVD, KGB, etc. In Stalin's case, the 
>last person to hold the job of head of the secret police was Laventry 
>Beria. All of Beria's predecesser's were liquidated by their sucessor's 
>during Stalin's reign. Stalin once said 'the only way two people can keep a 
>secret is if one of then is dead'. This does not mean that he ever did the 
>job himself though. Show me one credible text from a respected historian 
>who has supplied references from state sourced archives that has written 
>that Stalin personally murdered anyone and I'll be surprised.
>There have been rumors that he murdered his wife Nadezhsda Alliluveya, but 
>never have I seen where this is anything other than pure conjecture. 
>Interestingly she was 'suicided' by being shot in the right temple when she 
>was left handed.
>As to Herr Wolf (not Marlene), he to my knowledge and considerable study 
>came close to possibly shooting someone only once when he is reported to 
>have personally arrested Ernst Rohm (head of the SA or Brownshirts)at 
>Rohm's hotel room on 'the night of the long knives'. Rohm was actually shot 
>by his SS guards whilst behind bars after he was given a pistol and failed 
>to do the 'honorable thing'. Same request here; refer me to one credible 
>text with refernces per above. 
>BTW, Rohm was one of Herr Wolf's oldest comrades and his former unit 
>commander in the WWI German Imperial Army, which was relatively speaking, 
>an honorable organization that adherred to international conventions of the 
>Got to run now as this is both as incredibly far off of topic, boring to 
>the camera and scotch guys and Frontline is on the boob tube covering an 
>interesting subject from 1989 that I was lucky enough to have watched in 
>real time back then. I'm interested in seeing if they will rewrite history 
>so soon.
>Leica Users Group.
>See for more information

In reply to: Message from gregj.lorenzo at (GREG LORENZO) ([Leica] RUSSIAN KGB leica?")